His Govt was the first to institutionalise corruption. During the govt formation, mu.ka was adamant on the home portfolio but anna fearing that mu.ka may get vindictive against his political enemies, gave him the PWD portfolio & “allowed” him to make money.

As for mu.ka, he is the worst ever politician in India. he will stoop to any level to gain favours.

They also told me that EVR was called “maapillai naicker” bcos of his shenangians.

Unfortunately where EVR erred was in thinking that it was brahmins who were the root cause of all eveil. He failed & rather did not speak up for the SC/ST & as a result the divison between the NBs & the SC/ST widened.

I also got some personal titbits abt EVR. Seems he wasa once seen parying to Lord Ganesha in house by Anna. Anna was disgusted on seeing this & this led to the split.

Difficult to believe but not impossible.

Also EVR wore a black shirt bcos as per hindu belief, you can wear a black dress & speak lies.

Anyway the single biggest contribution of EVR has been a highly divided society on caste lines.

thanks for your comments 83. i got some valuable knowledge from it, which i was looking for some time.

Let me respond to your questions slightly differently. It may not convince you satisfactorily though because you like what you believe even if it is different from the accepted History books and current political reality. It is like an Utopian nation for you.

You say that the Telugu, Kannada and Malyalam speaking areas can be part of the Tamil nation, then why not Tamil speaking area be part of Bharatam? You may not like the name India, but Bharatam has been in existence for a very long time – since Mahabharatam, which we have from our own Villiputturar. Or the name Hindustanam, which has been in existence from the time of the Indus valley civilization. You ask boundaries of it defined in a poem and I’m not aware of any such poem. My knowledge is limted on that area. May be someone more knowledgeable can enlighten us. But, pls remember – absence of proof is not proof of absence.

But proofs do exist politically if not poetically. Bharat or Hindustan has been in existence politically as mostly Maurya empire, Gupta Empire in the north along with kingdoms of Chera, Chola, Pandya, Rashtrakutas in the south as also Pala, Magadha kingdoms in the East (presently, Bengal and Orissa). Firstly the Greeks, then the Eastern and Western Christian nations, later Islamic nations have called these empires and Kingdoms together as Hindustan or Hindoostan.

Let us leave the languages for a moment and ask ourselves what comprises a nation state. If it has to contain mostly (for ex. 90% of people speaking the same language), then only the present day TN can be called so. But as much as the language, also the shared History and cultural beliefs have been part of a nation. In that case, TN, Kerala, Andhra and so on form part of the Bharat and it also transcends religion. In my opinion you are convinced that only the former (linguistic majority) forms a nation state whereas I say that shared history and culture, forms a nation state. India is a union of linguistically diverse states. Here is where you disagree, I don’t think you will change this opinion. I say that it is politically present as a Union of states because of shared history.

Regarding Kashmir, pls refer to this – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kashmir. It has always been part of Bharat. When Pakistan invaded India in 1965 with the hope of snatching Kashmir, the people in the border areas alerted the Indian army and only hence India could win and retain Kashmir. Even during the Kargil war, the people in the border areas alerted the army of Pak intruders and Indian army chased them out. The alerting wouldn’t have happened if those people did not think that they are part of Indian union. You can find this out if you study about those wars. The political disturbances in only Kashmir valley (not Jammu and Ladakh regions) is because Pakistan using the religion, overtly and covertly instigated for their selfish reasons.

Your argument blaming Mr. Nehru for clamping down on seccesionism doesn’t hold water. He did what any PM of this Union state would have done. Hypotherically if there were a separate Tamil nation, no leader would have allowed seccesionism as Chola and Pandya areas. DMK could have fought back Mr. Nehru if they had the conviction. DMK realized it is unacceptable to the people of TN and hence backed out. If TN people’s support for seccesionism had been present strongly, DMK wouldn’t have backed down, Few other seccesionists such as some Kasmir valley people aren’t backing down to the Indian military might. India is currently defeating seccesionism in Kashmir through political accommodation – something that Sri Lankan Tamils have been asking the Sri Lankan governments for many decades. Indian political accommodation is a work in progress as much as the Indian democracy is.

your quote” I agree India is there now, but it is there by the brute force of Indian military” unquote.

are you sure of that? how many indian military stationed in tamilnadu? does what you say apply to the other 24 states too? how many tamils killed by the brutal indian military? does that include tamils in the indian military too, or are they less brutal?

Reg the name of India, pls see this link – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_India.

Anything you say has to withstand the analysis of historians and finally accepted. The existence of India is not a fact that I have propounded. I’m simply restating what the History books are saying. It has existed as Bharat, Hindustan, Hindoostan, Aryavrata etc. Currently it is called India. You may choose to disagree.

Regarding Tamil Nadu, what you have stated are those lines of the poem. That is not proof. The statement that India or Bharat or Hindustan was never a nation, has to be accepted by the Historians, not just me. By the way, Vada vengadam is now part of Andra Pradesh. A good number of people in that region don’t speak Tamil now. These are historical changes that have taken place. It was a part of the Tamil koorum ulagam at that time, but not now. Similarly what was Chera nadu is now mostly Kerala and the people speak Malayalam. This too is a historical change from the times of Tolkappiam.

It is impossible for Indian army to maintain TN as part of India by brute force. The DK and DMK proposed separate Dravida Nadu and then Thani Tamil Nadu. It was simply unacceptable to the people. Mr. DBSJ has elaborately described it. The DMK themselves let that argument go because they knew that the people will not accept it. If TN is part of India because of military force, the people will resist it, actively or passively – look at Palestine or Tibet. The people of Tamil Nadu participate in Indian elections willingly and reasonably overwhelmingly. If the elections aren’t free or fair, the media will report them. These are proof enough that people of TN willingly accept India as a nation, not because of military force. If Kashmir is disputed, it is because Pakistan is encouraging it overtly and covertly. India is providing political space to people of that state and now the people are participating in elections better than before. It is a case of democratic work in progress. The present India is a democratic Union of the individual states including TN. The majority of people have chose that but you can disagree from the majority.

As I said before, I know for sure that you are not going to accept my arguments. I’m supporting my arguments with information from history books. I don’t want to let your selective quotation of poems and distorted beliefs, unchallenged and hence my responses. Tolkappaim belongs not just to you but to me too and each and everyone born in this state and who loves, cherishes and is part of the Tamil culture. My responses are as much relevant to you as well as Mr. Ananthan. You can accuse me whatever you like.

Regarding the Sri Lankan civil war, the gory civilian deaths and the eventual defeat in May 2009, Mr. DBSJ has written so well that I don’t have much to add. I only want to state that If LTTE had acted sensibly and responsibly in the past, it wouldn’t have come to such a pass. It is useless to blame India or Indians for that.

You want to throw away all the History books and cling to a few lines of a poem and believe that Tamil Nadu was a nation and India isn’t? Well, its your choice.

You don’t accept or agree the political realities of present day and maintain your views. I believe you are in a dream world. It is possible to wake up a sleeping person, not one who is pretending. God Bless you.

Well, finally, now that you continue to believe that TN is a nation and India isn’t, what are you going to do? Write blogs, or create a political movement? Go ahead.

“Do we want a single state or do we want two? Do we want one Ceylon or do we want two?.. These are the issues that in fact we have been discussing under the form and appearance of the language issue… if you mistreat them (Tamils), if you ill treat them…. if you oppress and harass them, in the process you may cause to emerge in Ceylon, from that particular racial stock with its own language and tradition, a new nationality to which we will have to concede more claims than it puts forward now… If we come to the stage where instead of parity, we through needless insularity, get into the position of suppressing the Tamil … federal demand… there may emerge separatism.” – Dr Colvin R. De Silva, Sinhala Opposition Member of Parliament, Hansard, June 1956

I wonder how much laughter he got in parliament and how many of them called him a good joker or turned around to tell others that he is just kidding.

You would be surprised how much support the Maoist and other separatist movements of India thrive in the western countries and socialist states around the world building an unshakable base. A lesson and allies for the Tamil that we have not contacted nor have learned from. India’s elite luxurious Diaspora who is only interested in the economic benefit has not done any work with grassroots or other movements/organizations in the west or socialist states to keep the Indian Unity. The Indian mission in the country of my residence is coated with corruption (you would expect that India would at least refrain from exporting their corruption beyond its border, many of my friends have done wonders with just $100). The Eelam Tamils should move away from India and ally with the very people India oppresses and speak us one and add to the movement. Even if India did help us it would only do it for their benefit such as plundering the land and the human resources of the Tamil people.

I had a discussion from an elderly Sikh gentleman who explained the challenge they face in openly lobbying for Kalistan politically or in armed struggle in India at the moment. It is all done in underground, and one of the finest ways is to get their cadres in influential position with in the governments at all stages. Which means that your worst nightmare can be your best friend!!!!

“Once Burma gets a sensible govt then the remaining small pockets of terrorism in Maniput would vanish.”

You wish…..If everything was easy as that then no one would have problem. I am sure it is people of your caliber that is advising the Sri Lankan government that getting rid of the LTTE and locking everyone up from the de-facto state would solve the entire problem.

“Come back to reality. Probably your broken time machine is still in 1980s”

Your solutions are still stuck in the 1980’s, we are all in 2000. The tactics/methods all have changed. Then again you are stuck in the Indian mentality who blindingly praise Ghandi for the exit of the Brtisih not considering the many others who contributed it even at a much greater level then Ghandi. Many still take pleasure in blaming Jinah (sadly many things that Jinah basing makes you more Indian) and not looking into why he had to make such a call for Pakistan (the Pakistan that he had in vision and oversaw is totally different from what exists today). Then again your mind is set on the Indian idea and you are convinced that nothing can go wrong. You won’t budge until it hits you on the ground, it will be soon if not very soon.